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Thursday, December 13, 2007

I think we are seeing a trend . . . and it's disturbing

All the people who object to Romney because of his religious affiliation seem to be Huckabee supporters:

Pastors for Huckabee:
1) "Are Christians Bigiots If They Can Not Support Mitt Romney Because He Is A Mormon?"
2) "Huckabee Ask; Does Mormonism Teach That Jesus and the Devil were Brothers? The Answer is Yes! Here is the Proof."

From Iowa Likes Mike (moderating comments . . . and takes a more moderate stand . . . but down deep is trying to defend Huck's injection of the "Jesus/Satan Brothers" doctrine into the race):
1) Is Mike against Mormons?
2) "A Note About the Mormon Issue"

Via the Caucus Cooler (back in action . . . most of us are still convinced it's a McCain blog in hiding): An email from a Iowa legislator, Craig Adamson of Marion, IA, states "Mormonism is a cult" and uses that logic to convince other Iowans that Romney should be rejected (actually, I have no confirmation that this guy's with Huckabee. But chances are . . .)

The Baptist Press seems to be interjecting themselves into the debate:

  • They've got a 6 part series (up to part 4 currently. . . Part 1 here) about Mormonism.
  • This one tells Baptists how to respond if Mormon missionaries come to the door.
  • Oh, and they're defending Huckabee as a martyr whose being targeted because of his faith.
  • And lest there be any doubt . . . their alternating ticker in the top right corner has a picture of Romney with the words "Romney and Mormonism". Shameless. Do you see the LDS website freaking out that Huckabee's a Baptist and bringing forth articles to attack his faith?

Now, all of this is not Huckabee's fault per se. His supporters can do/say what they want and will. However, I don't believe he's been at all clear in denouncing and condemning this line of opposition to Romney's candidacy. He and his organization should seek to counsel their supporters to leave these debates to the theologions, apologists, and chruch leaders. Let's keep this OUT of politics.


Paul said...

That Adamson guy is "stongly leading towards Huckabee" (no surprise there)according to the interview he gave Jake Tapper at ABC news. Adamson has no shame, apparently. His whole town where he is a city councilman will now know what a bigoted jerk he is.

Spidey said...

This is the problem here I believe. It is that the evangelicals don't want Rudi as the nominee because of his social positions.So they're hoping Huck can ride a wave to caryy him through long enough to knock Rudi out. Romney is the main competitor to stopping this in the early states if he catches on. That's why all these attacks are happening because they see it as Romney's biggest weakness.It's too hard to explain the flip flop thing in quick sound bites. The jesus/Devil attack was an effective sound bite attack and calculated.Romney has to depend on people not buying into this religious bigotry and that's an unknown factor, I think the Evangelicals are very committed to keeping Rudi out of it.I really think Mitt is getting in the crossfire on this and it's not personal. But it's filthy politics and I hope most republicans reject it.The bad thing here was the Church came to Romney's defense something he said he would avoid.

Greg said...

Clinton took care to say 'i don't want anyone to vote for me only because they won't vote for a black man'.

Like you say, it's not all Huckabee's fault, but I highly doubt Huckabee plans to say 'i don't want anyone to vote for me only because they won't vote for a Mormon.'

Swertfeger said...

Can the pastors at Pastors for Huckabee lose the tax exempt status of their church for participating and openly supporting Huckabee?

Anonymous said...

I think Mitt is going to take off the kid gloves and start going negative in his Iowa ads. Mitt is anguished in quick sand and his political wheels are spinning. The real question is whether or not Mitt will support Huckabee when Huckabee blows the doors off the Iowa Caucus. The die has been cast and Huck wins this one in a land slide. How long will it take Mitt to release his delegates and allow them to join the winning team of the Huckabee Express?

Greg said...

"Mitt is anguished in quick sand and his political wheels are spinning."

Yeah. Picking up the National Review's endorsement, along with Novak's and the Govornor of Nebraska ... he's hardly moving. Time to fold up the tent and go home.

TOmNossor said...

I felt compelled to respond to two of the above posters.
First, Spidey said that “the Church” came to Romney’s defense.
Actually, when Huckabee PERSONALLY made this about Romney’s religion, a Church of Jesus Christ of LatterDay Saint’s spokesperson offered the context of Huckabee’s attack. The Jesus & Devil brothers is a bread and butter staple for simplistic critics of the church. In context it is emptied of much of its force, but stated in the typical way, the way Huckabee did, it carries quite a punch. So the CoJCoLDS spokesperson explained the scope of what critics of the church neglect to mention. She (I think) was defending the church not Romney.

Second, anonymous asks if after Romney is beaten by Huckabee if Romney will surrender and throw his support behind Huckabee (I really doubt Huckabee will win Iowa even, but...).

As I began to support Romney, I originally considered Huckabee to be the ideal vice-president (this was before he was “vetted” by the process, but just so you know were I started).
I have now been struggling with how I could possibly support Mike Huckabee for anything. I believe Huckabee to be a dishonest and bigoted person. He spoke at the Southern Baptist Convention held in Salt Lake City. Next to his publications on the table and adjacent to him in the speaking program were publications and speakers who were critics of the CoJCoLDS. Every attendee supposedly was supplied with a book critical of Mormonism AND a video critical of Mormonism. I have been surprised at the things Huckabee has in fact demonstrated his ignorance of during this campaign (recently), but I do not believe he was innocently asking questions about anti-Mormon claims. He did so on purpose with knowledge.
Has he apologized? I am not sure. He surely said he was sorry he was taken out of context (which by my view is a lie) AND he was quick to celebrate his apology in front of the press. The damage (whatever it may be) is done. Apologizing only furthers Huckabee’s candidacy. For these reasons I am inclined to believe "the apology" was calculating not sincere.
So what do I do. I am a pro-life, fiscal conservative who is also a LDS. Other political issues are less important to me, but I am generally conservative in those realms too. I am more interested in religion than politics, but I believe that a person’s religion (even if it is as flawed as Huckabee’s anti-Mormonism) should not be the deciding factor in presidential politics (which does matter to me).

I think this is where I am. I am for man I consider to be dishonest and despicable who is pro-life even though he is not a fiscal conservative over Rudy Giuliani (who I believe to be personally flawed as well, but I presently have a much more positive view of him as a person than I do of Huckabee). I am for Huckabee who I find to have behaved in a morally repugnant manner at this moment over any democrat (because they are all not pro-life and perhaps less fiscally conservative than Huckabee). But, I would support Alan Keyes, Ron Paul, Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter, Fred Thompson, and John McCain above Mike Huckabee.

It was very difficult for me to support Mitt Romney. I was very opposed to voting for a Mormon. I am a LDS, but I have no intention of voting for someone because they share a religion with me. I was on guard because of Romney’s faith and my desire to not support someone for the wrong reason. But, I am a pro-life fiscal conservative. Mitt Romney is the BEST candidate in my view and in the view of numerous un-bigoted folks. I am increasingly convinced that such is the reasoned conclusion of true conservative who will not be impacted by the perceived strangeness of Romney’s faith.

In conclusion, if I am asked to vote for Huckabee instead of Bill (Hillary is fairly flawed too it seems, but let me hypothetically stick with Bill) Clinton, I will vote for Huckabee, but it is not because I have less personal dislike for him at this point in this process. Bill Clinton taught numerous young children about extra-marital sex, Mike Huckabee used anti-Mormonism to further his political fortunes. Both impact my views of them as appropriate role models for decent human behavior. I am sure I can solely hate the sin, but that does not mean that I will have positive views associated with making either of them representative of my country.


Ladd said...

Or, for example, the rather incendiary charge that Mormons believe that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer, which I think is designed to inflame not to inform. People are never given the theological context in which that proposition makes some sense and they are never really told what the alternative is. It has always seemed to me rather odd to say that one view is blasphemous but the other view is not blasphemous. You see, it is one thing, as some of you have heard me say, to believe that Satan or Lucifer is the spirit brother of Jesus, the Son of Heavenly Father went wrong. That's an explanation, maybe, of evil in one sense. We don't typically hold parents responsible if they raise their children well and the child simply takes a bad turn--becomes a serial killer or something like that. On the other hand, if the parents raise the child to do what he ends up doing, we regard the parents as morally culpable.

More comparable to what I see as the traditional theological view is that Jesus is the Son of God but Lucifer is the creation of an all-powerful, all-knowing God. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew exactly what would happen (because he sees the future perfectly), and created Lucifer out of nothing. That seems, to me, to create at least a dilemma, a little problem, called a problem of evil. Because then God knowingly is leading down the path that will lead to Auschwitz and the Killing Fields of Cambodia. And I'm not sure that's a real improvement over the Latter-day Saint view. It just seems to me that if you are going to look at theological problems that you perceive with one view, you have to acknowledge that there are some real dilemmas connected with the other view as well.

David said...

Dear Swertfeger:
The answer to your questions is an unequivocal YES! I'm a CPA and deal with NPO's (Non-Profit organizations), and they are usually granted non-profit status under Internal Revenue Code section 501(c)(3), and the regulations thereunder. Those same regulations require great care to be taken by the NPO to avoid these exact activities. Specifically, IRC Sec. 501(c)(3) state, "and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office." Otherwise qualified churches that violate this requirement are subject to revocation of their NPO status.

I hereby call upon the IRS to do its job and investigate any qualified religions organization what may be in violation of this provision.

Anonymous said...

There may be cause for concern, but based on the polls, I don't think Huckabee can organizationally move voters to the primary like the Romney organization.

Anyone that believes that Huckabee is a leader for the United States of America believes that Baptists are born of God and pre-destined to heaven and everyone else is going to hell.

Romney is a class act, I like the way he has handled Huckabee's blatant disregard for the majority of Americans that are NOT Southern Baptist. As an independent voter, I will be voting for Ron Paul in the primary and IMO Ron Paul is the guy Romney should be worried about...but If Romney wins the nomination, I would vote for him in the general election.

If Huckabee somehows convinces the GOP that he's the guy to represent conservative values, I'll cast away my general election vote to a write-in for Ron Paul since he won't backstab the GOP like they backstab true conservatives. In that sense I suppose Southern Baptist logic politics eye for an eye is fair, but when you're classy like Ron Paul or Mitt Romney, you take a higher road...I respect them for that.

TrustMitt said...

Read my views about Mitt and Religion